Up Your Game with Custom Dice!

Update #39 (Important Replacement Update)
over 3 years ago – Thu, Oct 01, 2020 at 11:28:34 PM

Hi, gang.

Your continued support and enthusiasm has really lifted my spirits! I remain focused on getting defective dice replaced and am currently in discussions with the factory on the best way to handle it. 

Q Workshop and I don't quite have an agreement yet as to the best course of action, but we should have one by Friday, I would think. I will post another update when I know more. There's some things I'm going to ask you to do down below to help get this done more efficiently. Again, I'm so sorry about this.

Unfortunately, this is a complex situation. The factory offered to give me 3 months to gather up any known defective dice and get them back to them so they can analyze all of them. Once they are done with their investigation, they will make new ones, and then ship them out directly to you. I still have a thousand or so dice left, so they'll be shipping some out to me at some point as well. 

I am now convinced that there are more defective dice than we can currently confirm, but I'm not sure how many, so the factory should also be testing both dice missing numbers and dice that might lose a number in the next few days or weeks for reasons they will be investigating. (I was just made aware today that some dice were received with little paint number(s) in the bottom of their display bags, which means they were intact and fell off during shipping.) I'm not saying all of the dice are defective. 

I'm still hoping the number of bad dice is minimal. I'm currently not aware of a single Green Overkill, Stargate, Sky Ark or Apocalypse Rising that has lost a number/image. As I said in the last update, I believe those were created using a different process as they have different edges than the others. 

If we ship back all of the ones we currently know about, we may have to do the shipping all over again if we find more a week or two later, so unfortunately, this isn't going to be resolved quickly. We don't even know how many dice are defective yet, but however we handle it, I would pay for the return labels, if photos aren't approved in lieu of your dice, and Q Workshop will pay to ship new dice directly to you. once they complete their testing and make new ones. 

I'll be making a spreadsheet to track your claims and other details, like shipping addresses to give to the factory. I have also offered to supply the factory with as many of my own dice (both obviously defective, and potentially defective) to help them in their investigation, and get the ball rolling much quicker than their plan allows for, but we are still sorting it out.

I told them they should test mine first because I can ship them out right away and they should have their results long before they would with their current plan.  After all, they should be able to use mine to determine what happened and whether it is a batch issue or isolated cases, and we need more time to see if other dice will lose numbers. I told them if that is not enough samples, then I can get more or even all of them, if needed, but unfortunately, it may take some time to deem what is defective and what is not. Once we know, they can determine how many to manufacture, make them and ship them to you. Meanwhile, I'll be making a spreadsheet recording defective dice, your addresses for shipping, etc. 

Here's what I'm hoping you will do for me if you think you have defective dice so we can get this resolved more efficiently: 

• Please don't throw away any dice you deem are defective. I can only replace them if you have them. Please also keep an eye on your various QT Games dice to see if any numbers pop off and let me know if you discover any "new" defective ones within the next couple weeks or so.

• Please email all claims to [email protected] Subject: Defective Dice to ensure your claim is processed correctly and effecively.

•Please don't throw away any dice and be precise with your claim to ensure I'm aware of exactly which dice have missing numbers. Please also use both your first and last name, in case there's another backer with the same first name. or you are contacting me with a different email address.

• If you've already submitted a claim and then need to update it prior to my sending the report to Q Workshop, please let me know so I can adjust your claim on the spreadsheet I'm making for the factory.

• If you have any defective dice and have not yet reached out to me or if you sent your claim in already, but then have a number fall off of a different die, please email me with Subject: Defective Dice to help me accurately track them and respond.  

• I know I asked you for a photo and I'd still appreciate that, but the factory has not yet approved that as a means of making a claim, so please also keep your original packaging if it is in a shipable state or other bubble mailer, I'll be happy to purchase a return label and send it to you if the factory decides they need all of the defective dice back for testing.

I know that looks like a lot I'm asking you to do, but it should only take a few moments, and a bit longer if I end up needing you to send me back anything. Hopefully, the factory will approve my revised plan and we can begin testing a sample group right away, rather than wait until everyone knows exactly what is defective and then I have to wait for all of the returns and then reship them to the factory. We might be looking at around January before they start manufacturing new dice because it will take time to determine the scope of the situation and do testing, and then March before they finish manufacturing new ones and ship them to you, unless we get lucky. Those are tentative dates. Right now, they don't even know what's wrong or how many to make, of course.

My plan may not save us time, but it just might. At least they would be able to start testing in a few weeks, rather than a few months. The sooner we are able to determine how many of the dice you have are actually defective, the sooner we can get them replaced. I'm sorry if some of my sentences are fuzzy reading, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard, but wanted to get this out to you. If this was less complex, I'd use fewer words, trust me.

Once I have the final word on our official next step, I'll post another update. it shouldn't be nearly as long as these first two, because I've covered nearly everything between them, unless they throw me a curve ball. Thanks so much for your patience! —Bob

Update #38: Important Status Report
over 3 years ago – Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 01:56:59 AM

Hi, all. 

I appreciate all of the wonderful comments on Kickstarter — you guys have been very encouraging and I'm so glad you like your dice! Sadly, the last couple days have been a bit of a nightmare, instead of exciting like you'd think they would be at this point, and so I have some big announcements to make. Like the header reads, this is important  . . .

Shipping: First, the faster announcement . . . I finished packing all of the dice on Sunday and shipped out the last of the packages on Monday. I still have quite a few dice left in stock, but everyone that has gone to Backerkit and finalized their order (98% of you) has either already received their package or it is in the mail, and should arrive in the next day or two, or up to a couple weeks or so. That should be really good news. It should, but now I'm not so sure, at least in a few cases . . .

Dice Anomaly: Sadly, Sunday night as I was wrapping up packing I discovered some of the boxes had a handful of defective dice in them. (I went into more detail on how and what I found, but moved it further down to get to the bottom line faster. Still, it's worth a read, IMO, though it makes me miserable to think of it and this update is long even without reading it. See How it Went Down, below, if you want details.)

I am so, so sorry if you received any defective dice. I will absolutely replace them, but I know that means a delay in having all of the awesome die you wanted, and a bit of a headache, too. I know some backers must have gotten one or more because I've only managed to find 13 bad dice so far and have maybe 3 dozen painted numbers or pieces of numbers that I found Sunday night at the bottom of boxes. I'm hoping that means only a small number of defective dice, but I just don't know yet. It's still too soon. Today I received my first email regarding a defective die. If you have one, I want to know about it. so I can get it replaced. 

Please do not throw away any defective dice you may have. The factory wants to see each defective die, and unless I can get them to just accept a photograph, I'm going to have to get them back from you, but I'll get into that in my next update once I've had time to talk with the factory more (and I'm totally open to feedback, of course.) 

You guys are really amazing, just like the backer that emailed me today about a defective die (My first notification) just because we're all friends doesn't mean that you should let it slide and put up with a sub-standard die. No die is perfect, but I want everyone super happy they backed me and I want everyone walking away with exactly what they wanted out of this campaign, so please do let me know. I won't be happy until you are all happy with ALL of your dice! Please also be patient as I sort this out with the factory and work toward getting this situation corrected. Q Workshop is giving me their full attention, but this takes time.

Contacting me regarding Defective Dice: As you can imagine, I'm going to need to be very organized about this. You can do us both a favor if you have one or more defective dice and do this . . . please email me asap with Subject: Defective, and preferably provide a photo of the dice outside the bag if you've opened it, so I can get a clear view of it, and if it isn't clear, provide a description to help ensure I am able to tackle this as efficiently as possible to get you your replacements. 

The factory wants me to collect all of the defective dice from you, and I may not be able to avoid doing that, but I'm hoping when I talk with them tomorrow that they'll say I can show them clear photographs instead. That would be faster and less expensive for me. If you send me an email, as opposed to a PM, I can stay on top of it easier and keep track of it better. There are just too many locations on Kickstarter to keep track of effectively (Update comment section, Main Kickstarter comment section and PMs, none of which are remotely as easy to search. 

I'm not saying to email me in some attempt to try to hide this (I am very embarrassed and upset, but if I was trying to be private, I wouldn't have set this update to be public when I could make it for backers' eyes only. Future orders shouldn't be affected by this situation, It's still a fluke for Q Workshop, just a big, very unhappy fluke, and you guys are the last ones I'd want to be affected by it.

Email: [email protected] if you happened to have a defective die or dice — please don't toss them out! We don't know how many are defective at this point. It may only be a handful. We just don't know. Regardless, as I've said before, QT Games is committed to high-quality products, which is why we went with a high-end dice manufacture, and why I spent more money per die, so naturally this breaks my heart. 

I love you all so much for standing with me, and can't bear the thought of this happening. But it has, and all I can do at this point is hope you realize how bad I feel and that I'm doing everything I can to get any defective dice replaced asap. I'm still pouring over my remaining inventory, but so far I haven't found any more defective dice. The factory told me this has never happened to them before and were very apologetic, and promised to remake any defective dice. They aren't sure what happened, but they have a stellar reputation, so I'm sure they'll figure out what made some dice not bond properly with the paint and get you the amazing dice I promised (like they've made thousands of times in the past). Again, I believe most of the dice are fine. I've even tested several among the defective dice, trying to scrape off the paint and it doesn't come off easily unless you try gouging it with a metal tool, but that's not how dice are traditionally interacted with, of course.

Some Good News: Thankfully  . . . I have yet to find a single defective Stargate, Sky Ark or Apocalypse Rising die. I believe the factory said those were created using a different process, if I recall correctly. They have pointier sides than the other dice. All of the dice I've seen from those 3 dice brands look gorgeous. I did not find a single piece of loose paint or number in the Green Overkill D20s box, and only 1 in the Orange Overkill D20s box. No defective dice in either. I have not found a single Harbinger missing any paint since finding the missing pip on that first one, so I'm thinking that none of the ones with images were affected by whatever happened. If you know otherwise, again, please let me know in an email. Thanks! 

Hopefully we're only talking about a small number of dice in total, but whatever it is, I'm on it. This is totally Murphy's Law. You deserve better. QT Games deserves better, but things happen beyond our control. If you read the lengthy update above, you know how I feel. I wish I had discovered this problem sooner, but I've only had the dice a short time and the vast bulk of my inventory seemed to be in wonderful condition. It's only been two nights since I found out there was anything wrong, so my head's still spinning and I haven't had much time to plan yet. But rest assured that your total satisfaction is very important to me. I'll post another update very soon.

Sorry again.   — Bob 

____________________________________________________________________________

How it went down: Sunday night as I was packing up the last two orders, I discovered a defective Overkill D6 Red. It was missing paint on one of the faces. I assumed this was a fluke, and then I found 3 more, each missing a single number. I'd found a Harbinger a week ago that was missing a pip, but surely these were just that — flukes. No product is 100% without flaws. Every item mass produced delivers some defects. I had counted on that and over bought to be safe. No big deal. Near as I could tell, all of the ones I shipped out looked great, but I didn't look at every single face of every single die I had in stock. Heck, I'm still going through them, paranoid. I was paying attention as I packed them, but I know now some must have gone out without painted numbers or had numbers fall off afterwards. Who knows. The factory hasn't even had time to investigate. We're talking Sunday night, after all, and this is Tuesday night.

By this point, several of the boxes were nearly empty and as I was tidying up my shipping area I decided with 4 defective red Overkill D6s, that I'd better look at the rest of the ones in the box more closely. So, I took all of the d6s out of the box and looked them over one at a time. I couldn't find any more bad ones and sighed in relief, thinking it was just the red Overkill D6s, and maybe still somewhat of a fluke. Then I happened to notice a small white number in the corner of the bubble-wrapped bottom of the box. Panicky, I turned the box over and tapped it several times hard on the table and then looked and found something like 7 painted numbers and a few pieces of numbers. My stomach tied up in knots and I felt sick. 

Next, I emptied out the contents of the Black Overkill D6s and found only a single painted "1" at the bottom. Still, that make my heart skip a beat. This is serious. I went through the dice one at a time and found a single die missing a "1" from the black Overkill D6s. I just can't get a break. This is nuts how hard it has been for me. I had no idea if there were more missing numbers, but didn't stop there. The more sides a die has the easier it is to miss a defect, but it seems like the lions share of defects were among the red Overkill D6s. I've since found a couple "numbers" on my beige table, nearly invisible. No idea where they came from. Frantic, I started emptying out box after box looking for pieces of paint and found a few more numbered pieces and was thoroughly miserable at this point. Exhausted, I kept going, staying up well into the night. I wanted to know the scope I was dealing with. And evidence to show the factory. 

I stayed up for several hours looking at die after die, turning each one in my hands, found only 1 or two per box missing numbers (but may have missed some at that sleepy hour), then stopped and wrote the factory and gave them photographs of the numbers and defective dice. Mind you my working vacation was over and I had to work in the morning. Monday went by and no backers complained about dice. I waited impatiently for the factory to contact me. They're a business in Poland. They needed some time, understandably. They contacted me immediately that they would go to the top and get back with me. I heard back from them this afternoon and finally got a chance to read through the whole email when I got home from work tonight. After I publish this update I'll write them back and get this thing moving.

Update #37 Shipping Dice!
over 3 years ago – Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 01:50:20 PM

Hi, all. 

After an absurd number of Murphy's Law situations, I finally got the dice and everything set up on Tuesday, 9/15 and started packing. Since then, there's been many more hiccups, but I'm making good progress now. A little over half of the orders have been shipped —  255 packages as of Noon today! I'm having some problems with my printer, so I may end up buying a new one before this Kickstarter is over,  but it's hanging in there so far. Here's some of the dice . . .

I will continue packing like mad until I go to bed Sunday night. I figure I should be able to do another 100 packages by then, assuming nothing else goes wrong. After that, I'm back to my day job and will be packing at night and shipping during my lunch breaks at work (At least I hope to. I need to see if there's a Post Office near my work.)

I love how the dice turned out and am excited to get them to you. (I can't wait to start using my new Harbingers, for one!) I've been using some mock ups I made with stickers all this time for my board games. Down the road I might make some Harbingers in purple like you can see in my earlier dice Kickstarter. I love the orange, though, but I also have ideas for some new colors for some other dice and might even do some new designs. Before I do more dice, though, I have to whittle down the inventory a bit and finish a really cool board game and fiction project I have in the works!! 

If you haven't checked out our Universes, I think you are missing something really special! I've been creating original content for both universes (the Cosmoverse and Toonaria) for decades and plan to continue to until I'm in the grave —yeah, I love them that much and think they are worth my time! My blog shares some details as does QTGames.com. Anyway, back to the dice . . .

I think the factory did a great job, but I'll let you decide for yourself. As I will have a good number of dice left over after this Kickstarter ends, and have heard from a few who missed the campaign, and those who might want to snag an extra Harbinger or two to have a complete set (actually, Triply requires several sets for regular play, but Zone Racer works well with just 1 set), I have decided to reopen the Pre-Order store for a limited time (shipping after you get your Kickstarter dice.) Speaking of the Pre-Order store, I need to update it once I'm done shipping, to reflect all the dice you amazing backers unlocked!)

So, if you didn't get everything you wanted or you know someone who wants the dice, there's a chance I'll have more available.

As for the shipments, I've tried to do a mix of US and International backers across all pledge levels. Please continue to be patient as I pack and ship. I know that I'm a few weeks behind where I wanted to be, which is why I took another week off work, but all the finalized dice orders should be out the door in the next 7 days, I imagine, if not sooner. After that, I'll pack orders as they come in for backers who still haven't chosen their dice yet.

That's all for today, friends, I need to get back to packing!

Cheers!  — Bob 

Update #36: Update on Shipping
over 3 years ago – Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 07:55:41 AM

My dear friends, as promised, I'm posting this update to keep you in the loop without inundating your InBox. 

As I mentioned in my last update, the factory had delays twice in Mid-August preventing them from getting the dice into my hands end of August, and then something else happened and the dice were sitting for several days at their factory packed and ready to ship, but not shipped. I'm sure they are short-staffed lately with all that's been going on. Frankly, I've had so many hurdles over the past two weeks that it's almost comical (I said almost— I'm not laughing either.) Everyone involved has been apologetic, but that doesn't deliver dice. I'm sorry too, but I know that doesn't deliver dice either. 

I've been dealing with issues at the factory, with the Backerkit software, with my shipping software company where I'm creating the labels and customs docs, and also with UPS who were supposed to pick up the dice and deliver them to me for repacking. It has been very frustrating having to deal with other company's issues and glitches knowing I have no real control over any of it. I know —such is life. 

These are nutty times we are currently living in and I know I'm not perfect either, of course. I've learned a couple tricks on Backerkit this week that would speed up a future dice Kickstarter fulfillment a little, barring shipping delays. But mostly it's been odd glitches and mistakes that others have made that hopefully won't happen all at once, if at all, the next time. None of them actually slowed down me down from packing your orders, since I was waiting on the dice to show up, but they caused a ripple that will delay some orders.

The bottom line: I promised the dice in September and I think the majority of you should still get your dice this month, though not as early as I'd hoped. But it is now clear that some will not get their dice until October. This includes probably all International orders, since they take much more time to deliver. Once again, I'm sorry about all this. Two packages were apparently handed off to UPS on September 3rd (8 days ago.) One of the them made it to Las Vegas last night and I was able to pick it up. The other, much larger package is still in Poland. UPS somehow forgot they had it and sat on it for over a week. I contacted them and the Factory to inquire, and UPS finally found it collecting dust in their warehouse. On the bright side, I think you'll agree that what dice did show up last night look great! (Here's a peek at some of the final dice! The black D6 is an Underkill, btw —I didn't realize it wasn't obvious until I uploaded it to the update.)

Unfortunately, without the much bigger box, I can't package a single order, as I don't have the right combinations of dice yet. My day job has been very accommodating to let me keep taking spontaneous time off work to put out one fire after another. I think and hope the fires are all now out, but I'm quickly running out of vacation time and still don't have what I need to ship out a single package. 

As for UPS, they have no explanation for what happened to the big package. It was just sitting there. I have been promised that they will process it now and put it on a plane. (The UPS site wasn't giving me updates and then started giving me conflicting updates.) Now they know what's what and are telling me it will arrive by this Monday night. I am hopeful that the big package really will make it to me my Monday night so I can jump on packing! this Tuesday morning! I'm setting up the shipping area tonight to maximize efficiency.

After publishing this update I'll do a final review, then convert the file to CSV format and upload it to the shipping software company. (The backer who finalized their dice order last night just made it into the mix. I added them to the rebuilt spreadsheet late last night.) Any backers who go to Backerkit to finalize their orders or to update their credit card after a failed charge from this point on won't be shipped out until all of the current finalized backer orders (472 of you) have been shipped.

I would have gone back to work to save vacation time for when the dice finally arrive, but I kept getting hit by things —hints that the dice were going to arrive and those other glitches and issues I hinted at above cost me well over a full-time week of work to fix (that spreadsheet I mentioned, for one. I had to completely rebuild it line by line due to glitches.) Oddly, Backerkit and my shipping software company though supposedly compatible, didn't agree on how everything was to be handled, which caused hiccups. Not sure what the deal was there, but Backerkit especially was very apologetic. Regardless, it's all part of that time ripple I mentioned. Speaking of time, I value yours, so I won't go into any more of the gory details.

I appreciate your patience as I wrap things up. I'm taking off all of next week to pack and ship, but then I need to return to my day job. My wife has kindly offered to help pack orders when the big box comes in, but she has her own commitments, so it will mostly be just me, unless I get lucky. Whatever packages are left after next week will be handled when I get home from work at night, and on weekends until all of the dice have been shipped out. You can rest assured that I will continue working my tail off to get the dice into your hands!

Thanks!         —Bob

Update $35: Update on Dice and Downloadables
over 3 years ago – Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 10:38:02 PM

Hi, Friends. 

There's a few important things we need to go over . . .

I've been meaning to send you an update all week, but was waiting for the good news to arrive about the dice, so I could share it with you. The dice were supposed to be on my doorstep around Thursday of last week, but I still have not even gotten confirmation that they have shipped yet, so I assume they haven't. 

I inquired last Monday and the factory informed me that the Dice were ready to ship and just needed a Commercial Invoice for customs. I was assured it would only be a day or two before the dice were in the mail and that their shipments usually only took a few days. I had gotten vacation time approved to take off last Friday and all this week, but now I have no idea when the dice will arrive. My guess is that they will ship them Monday or Tuesday Sept 7 or 8. I believe Labor Day is in May in Poland, so that shouldn't slow things down for me, but now I'm going to have to see if my day job is willing to shake up my vacation time and let me off later for the delayed shipment. I've got all the goods I need to ship . . . 

The above picture doesn't include the boxes of bag toppers I made and sent out for printing (see last update for what they look like!) I forgot to include the boxes in the scene, above when I took the pic. Speaking of printed material, I'll probably end up printing a bunch more Apocalypse Rising inserts for those who only pledged for a die or two. It hadn't occurred to me when I made the last stack of inserts that even those who don't have the whole set of dice might want the insert. Anyway, that won't hold up anything.

So, I said it won't be long before, and unless something has happened at the factory that will cause even more delays, it still shouldn't be long now, though I'm so sorry that the dice didn't reach me sooner. I was thinking the Kickstarter was going to ship on time! Well, maybe with the pandemic that was too much to ask for, but we shouldn't be far off the mark even with the factory delays. There's a few of you living in pretty remote locations that might take longer to reach - maybe 3 weeks shipping time or thereabouts. Hard to say.  

Phone Numbers: all, please make sure that the phone number you provided in Backerkit is your local number - the number that is in the same location as your shipping address. I say this because there's a chance the carrier will have an issue and not deliver your package if your phone number is in a different region than your shipping address. If this is in the case, please let me know right away and get me your updated number. Thanks! My guess is they would only call if there was a problem, so they said they won't ship without a local number in case there is one a problem. So while in truth it's probably unlikely to be an issue, at least for non-international orders, but they say it's a MUST. So, better safe than sorry.

Shipping: As you may recall, there were some complaints early on about my placeholder shipping  cost estimates, which is why we went back to DDU shipping, enabling me to ultimately get you cheaper prices in almost every single case. In order to get you acceptable prices, one of the things I had to do was switch to shippers that are sometimes slower, like USPS First Class International. So, while the dice should ship pretty speedily for Domestic US backers regardless (The vast majority of you), International shipping may see longer delivery times, especially those of you I mentioned above, who live well off the beaten path. I'm sure you're accustomed to it, but I just wanted to remind you all so there weren't surprises. 

Insurance: Your package currently doesn't have insurance. Frankly, I'm probably losing money on this Kickstarter unless some store eventually hits me up for dice, because I cut the prices to the bone, so I can't afford to slap on free Insurance and faster shipping on top of all the discounts and concessions I've already made. I've mentioned this before, but it's been quite awhile now, so . . . if you need a faster shipping method or want to add Insurance,  or special tracking, please contact me and I'll see what I can do for an additional charge to cover those costs. Speaking of tracking . . .

Tracking: You will receive an email with tracking information when your package is shipped. Depending on where your package needs to go, the quality of tracking may vary after it leaves the U.S. I don't really have any control over this. Some International carriers and regions are better at providing tracking data than others. Please be patient and while the shipment may take longer in some cases than either of us want it to, it should get there safely. If there is a problem after a reasonable period of time, or if a package arrives damaged or is lost and the carrier can't find it, let me know, and I'll see what we can do to make things right. Of course, I'm always open to discussing any concerns you have. I only ask for patience as I don't have a lot of control over shipments, as I said.

Digital Files: Also, I meant to address the downloadables in the last email. All downloadables are now ready for you. If you haven't already gotten them, you can log into Backerkit and download them anytime! The eBooks are a different situation. Those are transferred by Amazon. Those of you who put my various eBooks in your shopping carts, all US eBook orders have been fulfilled.  (I sent you each a personal Kickstarter emaiil with your private links. If you click on the link it will take you to your download page (if you are logged in to Amazon) so you can download them straight to your favorite Kindle reading device. 

However, if you live outside the US, I have to jump through an extra hoop to get you your eBooks. I need to know which Amazon serves your location. I say this because Amazon isn't in every country, so please double check and let me know. I contacted you earlier, but haven't heard back from everyone. If you missed my books and are kicking yourself (please don't, but they are good stories!) you can find them on Amazon. Be sure to type in my name and the name of the book, because sometimes other books will come up, instead. Mine are (Sea of Worms, The Shadow Reaper and Arcane Synthesis: A Blended-Genre Anthology) I hope you really enjoy your books, maps and game downloads, and I'd love to hear your thoughts! As for the games, obviously they are not the final forms, but they should still be fun. I can't wait for the official dice to come in so I don't have to use my homemade dice anymore when playing the games!

That's all for today, friends. I'm hoping you will hear from me again in the next day or three with confirmation that the dice are on their way to my office!

You guys are awesome - hang in there and talk with you soon!!!    -- Bob